Why Don’t Jews Believe in Jesus

Why Don’t Jews Believe in Jesus ?

As a Christian you may have wondered: why don’t Jews believe in Jesus ? Perhaps you are a Jew who knows that Jews stood apart from the surrounding populace and refused to join the European people in their devotion to Jesus and you want to understand: why don’t Jews believe in Jesus ?

Before I can answer this question we need to determine what it is that the Church wants the Jew to believe about Jesus. The fact of the matter is that Church would want Jews to believe many different things about Jesus. The Church would have us believe that Jesus is the Messiah predicted by the Jewish prophets, that he is divine, that the devotion of mankind ought to be directed to him, that faith in him atones for sin and that he was the sinless lamb. Each one of these beliefs deserves its own answer.

Jews cannot believe that Jesus was the Messiah predicted by the Jewish prophets for the simple reason that he fulfilled none of the Messianic prophecies (https://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/the-messianic-expectation/ ). Furthermore; the character of Jesus as described by the writers of the Christian Scriptures stands as a direct opposite of the character of the Messiah that the Jewish people have been taught by the prophets to wait for (https://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/2010/09/05/the-polar-opposite/ ).

Jews cannot believe that Jesus was divine because we were taught by God that all of the inhabitants of heaven and earth are but creations of the One Divine Creator (https://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/foundation-of-worship/ )

Jews cannot direct their devotion towards Jesus because their devotion is already pledged to the Creator of heaven and earth. Jews stand in a covenant relation with God and directing devotion to anyone aside from the One to whom their heart is already pledged is the deepest violation of this covenantal relationship.

Jews cannot believe that faith in Jesus atones for sin for the simple reason that there is not one verse in all of the writings of the prophets that would teach that faith in anyone atones for sin. The consistent teaching of Moses and all the prophets is that sincere repentance atones for sin.

Jews cannot believe that Jesus was sinless because the prophets testify that no human being is perfect (http://proverbs1817.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/the-sinless-man/ ).

Even Jews who have strayed from their roots and do not follow the Law of Moses cannot believe in Jesus. These Jews recognize that attributing divinity to a human being and directing worship towards a person is simply wrong. By elevating one man to the status of divine the Church has negated the intrinsic equality of all men – the foundation of civilization.

Another reason why Jews don’t believe in Jesus is because of the atrocities committed in his name. During the past several decades the Church has engaged in an intense whitewashing campaign to disassociate Jesus from the horrors of the holocaust and the inquisition. But the fact remains that the Christian Church was the vehicle through which the mind of Western civilization was poisoned against the Jew. Whether this was their intention or not; the writers of the Christian Scriptures laid the mental and cultural groundwork for the cruel persecution of the Jewish people for almost 2000 years. You can’t really expect Jews to believe in the man idolized by these same writers.

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Yisroel C. Blumenthal

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36 Responses to Why Don’t Jews Believe in Jesus

  1. hyechiel says:

    Dear Friends;
    All of the objections Christian missionaries direct to Jews for not accepting or believing in your form of divinity is easily countered by both, the Tanach and your Gospels.
    G-d told us how He is to be worshipped and accepted, Gospel according to Christian teaching, violate even JC’s words about himself (Matthew 19:16-19 and others.) I have on several occatioins used your Gospel to deflect missionaries. Not the best example of love from them! One said; “Well, not the way it should have been written!” He was right; a friend of mine gave me a quizical look, and laughed. I just shrugged my shoulders.
    A minister came up to me and tried to evangelize me. I asked if he had a Gospel on him. I opened to a couple of verses in it, read where the Torah is not to be changed, and JC saying the Shama.
    He was very unhappy with me.
    I do not pursue after Gentiles to change their faith, and i would appreciate it if your missionary friends would show the same respect for G-d. After all, He owns our souls and placed each where He wants. Whoim are we to mess with His property?
    Also, the thousands of Christians who convert to Judaism each year, and in most cases, no Jew around until the process needs to be done? I think they could find what they seek in the Gospel, but I listen or read what they say, and it is obvious that they do not agree with my view.
    You concentrat on obeying G-d, instead of violating His word, and maybe some who are thinking of converting would stay Christian?
    Just a thought.
    Shalom;
    Yechiel

    • Gil T says:

      Greetings, Yechiel:
      Perhaps you would be interested to know there are a number of Christians who also cite Mark’s record of Jesus quoting the Shema. It may displease you to learn they, like yourself, conclude this quotation by Jesus proves he held to the ancient Jewish interpretation. I will encourage you, as I do them, to read the context of the dialog surrounding that quotation between Jesus, the Sadducees, scribes and Pharisees. Also, note the question posed to them by Jesus, which they neither answer nor does Jesus offer an answer, concerning Psalm 110.
      peace to you.

  2. You say “Jews cannot believe that Jesus was the Messiah”. Jesus didn’t say he is the messiah then why should you believe he is the messiah? See he even charged his disciples that they should tell no one that he was Jesus Christ.Not only that “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, ‘ and will deceive many” At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it..See, I have told you ahead of time. “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.”
    About his mission Jesus said to the Jews “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.. Mt.10:34.The sword Jesus mentioned is “the Sword” foretold by Moses and other prophets. Let us see what is written about the sword in the scriptures. In the scriptures it is written that Yahweh said to Jews “I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. Lev.26: 31 32 I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34Then the land will enjoy its Sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its Sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the Sabbaths you lived in it.

    ‘The sword is appointed to be polished, to be grasped with the hand; it is sharpened and polished, made ready for the hand of the slayer. Cry out and wail, son of man, for it is against my people; it is against all the princes of Israel. They are thrown to the sword along with my people .Ezek 21;10,12.

    (Jer. 24:9) I will send a sword after them until I have consumed them. “I will send on them the sword, the famine, and with pestilence, and will make them like rotten figs that cannot be eaten, they are so bad. I will deliver them to trouble among all the kingdoms of the earth- to be a curse, astonishment, a hissing, and a reproach among all the nations where I have driven them. (Jer.29:17-18)

    Zech.13:7 “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is my companion” declares the LORD Almighty. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones. 8 In the whole land,” declares the LORD, “two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God. Jesus came not to bring peace but to tell the Jews “the sword prophesied by all other prophets” are going to come upon the Jews

    What is the main function of Messiah? It is supposed messiah will bring everlasting peace. But Jesus said “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Then why should you believe Jesus was the Messiah or Jesus claimed he is the messiah and he is a failed messiah?

    • hyechiel says:

      Dear Daniel;
      This is a two part argument Jews and missioinaries have; he is G-d’s unique son, and the moshiac.
      Jews go be Tanach, as it is in the original/Hebrew. Missioinaries, in my investigation, go to a version of the Septuagent ordered by your church father, Marcion. There are differences between the two, the original we read. The Greek version, you use.
      Basically, two different theologies, so why not leave it at that, accept our being two approaches to Hashem, one allowed to us, the other you use.
      As long as the attempts to change or elimanate us are not functioning, we deal with Christians as with all religions. With those who will not accept this standard, remember, He Bless those who bless us, and he who curse us, so shall He curse him. I would love to see no one earning His curse, so do not share His word as you have it, with us. We have His word as He told it to us.
      Become accessible for your fellow Christians who need your help, to understand Him, as you see His word, and let us work together for a better world. I am particulary directing my words to Hebrew Christian sects, as J4J and others, but all of us can do better to study His word, and applied it to our neds, rather than trying to change someone by a -to him-a foriegn faith.
      Shalom. and do well;
      Yechiel

      • Yechiel, I or Jesus do not want to change any Jew, I and Jesus want Jews to remain as Jews whatever persecutions they may met in their lives. Jesus told the Jews ” All these are the beginning of birth pains. “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Mt.24:8-13. He who stand firm to the end means who remain as Jews and firm to the Jewish faith will be saved.

        You are aware that gospels are written by Christians and they have made the very important statement of Jesus ” “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” very light stating Jesus meant “the division” that may make in family and society. Why should a Jew accept the christian interpretation or explanations for the words of Jesus? Why a Jew should repeat what the Christians say instead of searching scriptures to find out the meaning of ” the sword ” in the language of a prophet? Why a Jew neglect to admit Jesus said to the Jews ” “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written”.There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” You may tell that this prophecy was written after seeing the destruction of Jerusalem, but what have you to say about the prophecy of Jesus “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”? Jesus didn’t say how long the gentiles will trample Jerusalem, are you not astonished that about 2000 years gentiles trampled Jerusalem under their foot ? Can you deny this amazing truth? Can you say some one wrote that prophecy after seeing the 2000 years history of Jerusalem and Jews? Why can’t you admit Jesus was talking about the same ” sword ” the prophets foretold in the scriptures?

        • Dear Daniel;
          To whom are you posting to? Jews (there was no “Christianity” until after the Trinity was voted in) wrote, and then what they wrote, including the writings of Gentile like Luke, was post-mortum and after the fact/act discribed.
          So from that moment on, two different and separate theologies develped, and secured the complete separation of our faiths, as far as how we see the Divine.
          Thank you for your impute, Dan, but you still have a lot to learn.
          Shalom;
          Yechiel

        • naaria says:

          Matthew 5:9. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”

          Luke 14:31-33 “Or what king, going out to wage war against another king, will not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one who comes against him with twenty thousand? If he cannot, then, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for the terms of peace. So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions.”

          • naaria says:

            So, Jesus did not want to “be blessed”? So, Jesus would have asked for peace with Rome or advised Jews to surrender or send a delegation to ask for terms of peace from the Roman army?

    • Gil T says:

      You pose the question, Daniel, as to the function of Messiah after quoting various passages on – the sword. Then you turn the question on Jesus. Fair enough. However, much like you neglected to even refer to the sword in the passages you cited and the function of that sword you did the same with the sword reference by Jesus.

      His subsequent words reveal what was the function of that sword and how that function was to be revealed. First, the function was the inescapable reality just as in the first and twenty first centuries that people make their decision to divide themselves from or towards with respect to Jesus, and second, he reveals that function would be revealed within families. One would chose to believe and follow Jesus while another one in that same family would reject him. Hence, the dividing, not necessarily a blood lust as some might read into the text, effect of the sword.

      Elsewhere, as you may probably be aware, Jesus did state he came to bring peace, but I understand that’s not in the scope of this present discussion.

      peace to you.

      • Gil T, You are aware that gospels are written by Christians and they have made the very important statement of Jesus ” “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” very light stating Jesus meant “the division” that may make in family and society. Why should a Jew accept the christian interpretation or explanations for the words of Jesus? Why a Jew should repeat what the Christians say instead of searching scriptures to find out the meaning of ” the sword ” in the language of a prophet? Why a Jew neglect to admit Jesus said to the Jews ” “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.. There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Jesus didn’t say how long the gentiles will trample Jerusalem, are you not astonished that about 2000 years gentiles trampled Jerusalem under their foot ? Can you deny this amazing truth? Can you say some one wrote that prophecy after seeing the 2000 years history of Jerusalem and Jews? Why can’t you admit Jesus was talking about the same ” sword ” the prophets foretold in the scriptures?

        • naaria says:

          But you are reading gospels written by Christians about what they think of Jesus, you are not reading words written by Jesus, so you have no idea who Jesus was (or even if he was a real person) or what he may or may not have said. Where were any Jesus followers after 70 c.e., why weren’t they preaching hope to the desperate & hopeless Jewish survivors of that war? A “see, didn’t we tell you?” gospel message that would prove your theory (& would have been popular with many people over the last 1900 years), which goes counter to the way that history went. They had a chance to rise above the ashes and build a new Israel or Judea. But Rome knew no Jesus either as a foe nor as a friend. And the surviving Jews never reported any Jesus or Jesus movement, either as a savior nor as a traitor; neither as a prophet who was proven right nor as a “quack” or fool.

        • Tsvi Jacobson says:

          Tsvi Jacobson says
          Daniel: You do not understand it doesn’t matter to a Jew what Jesus says until the words of Jesus are fulfilling what the Hebrew Scriptures already says of Messiah. Which he didn’t fulfill. You mention his prophecy of Jerusalem trodden down of Gentiles as evidence? Hey read Daniel 9 and 11 and get a revelation. Jesus was just quoting a true prophet. Take off your red letter glasses and see the scriptures from the ones that God gave them to and through.

        • Gil T says:

          You rambled a bit, Daniel, but your questions and frustrations are familiar.

          It matters not to by what name you identify the one giving an interpretation of scripture or the one being offered an interpretation of scripture. What does matter, and this is always my preferred response, is for, ” searching scriptures to find out the meaning of ” the sword.” However, Daniel, it is this on which I specifically called your attention. That is, you cited Ezekiel, Jeremiah and Zechariah, plugged in your conclusion as to the function of Messiah, but offered nothing by way of the meaning of the sword as used by those prophets. This, if you review my first address to you, is what I stated in the first paragraph on your neglect of the term and the passage. Merely quoting some verses with references to a sword is neither an interpretation nor explanation. So, I would encourage you to apply, not my interpretation or my suggestions, but your own words concerning the interpretation of the word use by the prophets.

  3. Gil T says:

    Greetings, Yisroel,

    Surely, by now you know I have never posed to you the opening question of your article nor have I told you you should believe in Jesus. I realize and appreciate, as I have stated in my own blog articles and our discussions, the understandable objections of Jews to the idea of adoration of anyone but the God of Israel.

    What I also trust you know by now is my dialogue, except for some nominal, incidental references to the New Testament, Jesus or the apostles, is framed within what you and I know is acknowledged, accepted and embraced by Jews: the Tanakh.

    So, it is with this is mind and with your objections to missionaries, their message and their methodologies that I say: Do you realize how much your own message, not the scriptures themselves, and your approach are so similar and sound so much likt that of the missionaries to whom you object, brother?

    Believe me, I have have said as much about Christian missionaries, but I am not speaking to them right now so I return to our discussion. I understand your article is not intended as a comprehensive article on the title subject. Still, permit me to cite just one example to illustrate my point.

    The first reason you offer:

    Jews cannot believe that Jesus was the Messiah predicted by the Jewish prophets for the simple reason that he fulfilled none of the Messianic prophecies. You posted the link to: The Messianic prophecies.

    I went and read the entire paragraph of your own words. One paragraph. Do you realize a missionary could theoretically copy/paste your article and with the least bit of editing could insert his own message with two examples like the following.

    Example one:
    Yisroel: Many Christians find it difficult to understand why Jews don’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

    Missionary: Many Jews find it difficult to understand why Christians recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

    Example one:

    Yisroel: When we read the scripture without any preconceived notions about the Messiah, when we read God’s promises for Israel’s glorious future age, we can readily see why the Jewish people cannot accept the claims of Christianity.

    Example two:
    Missionary: When we read the scripture without any preconceived notions about the Messiah, when we read God’s promises for Israel’s glorious future age, we can readily see why the Christian people accept the claims of Christianity.

    Then, following the single paragraph, you created a second paragraph packed full of scriptures.

    Yes, the scripture is the authoritative word of God, but this tactic is no different than some of my brethren in Christ are known to do and thereby believe their work is done. My point, Yisroel, is you passed on the opportunity to take your first point and subsequent points with, – what? something no different than what the same missionaries do? Is it any wonder the lack of coherent dialog from both sides?
    peace to you.

    • hyechiel says:

      Dear Gil T;
      Two different and separate theologies. One given to us by HaShem, the other a remake of the concepts used by the Pagan, and not allowed to Jews who are loyal to G-d.
      Now, all games aside, get real and realize that you have no right to distroy a Jews loyalty, as for over 50+ years i have witnessed it, in His Torah.
      The Inquesition and the Shoah could not have happened if it was not in the mind and posted in the writings of your church leaders. Those error filled ones like Mr. Brown are not even a minor irretant.
      Leave us alone, and you will have no problem with our responding to your blandishments.
      Shalom;
      Yechiel

      • Gil T says:

        I neither have a right nor is it my desire or am I capable of destroying a Jew’s loyalty to God and for you to even state that is cause for wonder.

        Of course, you also can not destroy, regardless of your disregard for what written, anymore than the warped mind of those church leaders could have destroyed or changed it.

        Your argument that those atrocities could never have happened if it were never in the mind and writing of those church leaders, with all due respect, hyechiel, is just as warped as those church leaders.

        Perhaps this perspective,applying your reasoning, may help: The atrocities which befall Israel at the hands of the Babylonians, Persians, etc., could never have happened if God indeed existed or if he had not turned his back on Israel.

        The truth, as you and I know, is that God does exist and it was not He who turned his back on Israel, Israel who abandoned the way of the Lord. Yet, this is the application of your reasoning, and I might add, one very much used by those who neither love God, seek God, believe God, but despise Him.

        I should add, hyechiel, you can no more write me off like a child playing games and you growing tired so as to just plea to be left alone. I have no problem responding nor do I grow weary, hyechiel. Is this real enough for you?

    • Gil
      You claim that the missionary could simply take my words and turn them around – sure I do – anyone can say anything if they want – my purpose here is to present the other side of the story and I imagine that the audience is intelligent enough to see which one of us is telling the truth
      Speaking about “coherent dialogue” – perhaps Gil instead of beating around the bush why don’t you get down to basics? You realize of-course that the burden of proof rests solely on the shoulders of the missionary – on this blog I demonstrated why every “proof” that the missionaries bring to support their theology is invalid – I am still waiting for a response. Perhaps you want to take the critiques of Dr. Brown’s five volumes and respond on his behalf?
      By the way you might find the following posts enlightening https://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/response-to-th-line-of-fire-9/
      https://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/goldberg-vs-brown/

      • Dear yourphariseefriend;
        We should really feel sorry for the missionaries. they are forced to used a deficent volumn to support theirclaims!
        We have the original Hebrew; they have a versioin of the Gentile written Greek Prophets and Writings, mandated by Church father Marcion. Like Paul, he was not to hip to truth, if it stood in his way.
        So those who try to show how wrong you are have to first of all, give up the forgery and come up to the real McCohen. Then, I have found out, we would be on a more even study field. So even, in fact, they would not want to dispute it, as they would be coming from G-d’s word, ot a version.
        Shalom;
        Yechiel

      • Gil T says:

        Yisroel, missionaries and Mr. Brown aside, you purported to address numerous specifics, but that is not what you accomplished.

        You can speak, like I suggested, to at least the first item in your list as an example.

          • Gil T says:

            What I am able to discern from your “letter to Sy about Messiah” is a compilation of passages which, as you suggest, relate or pertain to messiah. I have no argument nor will I dispute your point overall.

            What does strike me as peculiar is that it is an exercise. Again, I have no problem with it, but that it is taking the real, that is, king David, and applying it to a type of David, that is, messiah. I trust you would agree I have not distorted or violated neither your words nor your interpretation.This is an exercise involving scripture and exporting and extending it into the future, albeit, still within Israel.

            What would it look like to employ a similar discernment and interpretation BEFORE Israel, as in the days of Abraham and Isaac, and BEFORE Israel was brought forth out of Egypt as a nation? Those sacrifices of the firstborn were REAL, but would anyone conclude the type to which those sacrifices pertain or relate to was the animal sacrifices of the Aaronic priesthood? As in the case of the David-type messiah being greater than king David what do you suppose would dignify those human sacrifices to an even greater recognition? Please, note my query is limited to the framework of what is acknowledged and revered by Israel in scripture and history. There’s no need to lose focus and speak to this matter outside of that framework.

            As for Brown, I offer no defense or explanation for whatever he’s got to say for himself.

  4. Gil T says:

    Leave us alone? Get real, Yechiel.
    The New Testament words penned in the first century were by Jews about Jews and to some Jews. Furthermore, it was about Jews who either incited violence on their kinsmen in the flesh or directly inflicted violence on them.
    Do not distort my words. This is the historical context of those events and those words. Long before I ever became a disciple of Jesus I could never have comprehended any violence against Jews for those events of the first century. I became only more convinced of the same with added understanding following my commitment to Jesus.
    I understand it is the quick, easy (with much history to support) thing to assume that every single Christian is either overtly or covertly anti-semitic, much like others are do to accuse others of racism, but it does not and can not hold true of everyone. I am one, sir, of whom it does not hold true.

    peace to you.

    • hyechiel says:

      Dear Gil T;
      It is not me you are having the conversation with. All I am doing is being a relayer of the ideas your church fathers placed in the Gospel, so the Roman Emperor would let them be.
      So your un-Christian outburst to me is lost in eitherdom, well you have to struggle through the unsemitrical books.
      It was the Jews who saved the Nazarine faith for the first centuries, and them who faced the sward when they were decleared hyritical. The three for one, or is it one for three took over, and then your anceistors took off after us.
      Enough, already. All we can really agree on is that the positive Jesus was empathetic, well the negative one was for his way or the highway.
      I, for myself, stay with my fellow Jews who are loyal TO G-d, and do it His way, as all human ways are imperfect. If you had read all of what I wrote, you would have saved yourself some embarrasment.
      Shalom;
      Yechiel

      • Gil T says:

        Outburst? I did read everything you wrote, whether semitrical or unsemitrical(?).

        Despite the favorite bit many like to plow into about three this or three that, those brothers and sisters, including Stephen, the apostles and others as recorded in the scriptures, who tasted threats, than beatings than death did so in the first century and long before the favorite bit into which you plowed. It is a matter recorded in scripture that these threats, beatings and death were not, as you might prefer to conclude, at the hands of the Romans. Furthermore, when Rome DID enter the arena (pardon the metaphor) in the persecution it had nothing do with any doctrine. It was simply the contempt Rome saw in those disciples who would not bow in worship to Caesar. (I think I can anticipate the next volley, Yechiel.)

        The peace and love of God abound upon you and yours, Yechiel.

        • hyechiel says:

          Dear Friends;
          St. Jerome had trouble decyphering which manuscript was first. So I am not cncern about who’s on first. My concern is that we put the age-old discussioin behind us, and go with G-d, as each of us believe through our sacred writings, we should.
          Let Christian be Christian, Jews be Jewish and all of us work for the type of world He wants.
          Jews do so with Hindus and Buddest, and we have accomplished much. Christians who accept that His way is what each perosn reads in her or his scripture is as He wants for us, and we have worked well with each other. I think ht e less we deal with personalites, and the more we work on the ideal and event levels, the closer to G-d we shall be, and the more we can accomplish.
          Shalom;
          Yechiel

    • Dear gil T;
      You stated; >>>Leave us alone? Get real, Yechiel.
      The New Testament words penned in the first century were by Jews about Jews and to some Jews. Furthermore, it was about Jews who either incited violence on their kinsmen in the flesh or directly inflicted violence on them.<<<
      It so happened that there was a lot of politics then, as now. But, there was also a lot of listening, and for the first two centuries, the followers of the Nazarine had it easy.Even though a lot of the original was changed, even before the councils.
      Then, they got to be to many for the Empeor, and he calleda couple of councils.
      So a sharp-yes, i will call it red-line was drawn between Judaism and what became Christianity. Those who hung on-died.
      The last major slaughter of these followers of the Nazarine was in Bosnia, in the 16th century, I think it was. A major victory for the Trinitarians, a major help for Islam.
      Now, what were you saying? I got lost in the forest.
      Shalom;
      Yechiel

  5. Baruch Cantor says:

    Oy yoy yoy…..How very sad……..Most of you are approaching this whole conversation from a complete greek mind set which is so un-scriptual. The shere fact that christian’s don’t even understand Yehudi’s way’s of thinking, is because they look at the ‘bible’ with a greek mindset and greek eye’s,( linear thinking), instead of a Hebraic mindset with Hebrew eye’s, ( cyclic thinking )….Hmmmmm…..Food for thought……..Shalom for now…Baruch Ben David Cantor.

    • Gil T says:

      The smallest, briefest example on this mindset to which you refer would be much appreciated, Baruch.

    • Tiffany says:

      Yes, this is so very true, linear/cyclic thinking. I have actually done just that. I am raised presbyterian and started studying Jewish law at 29 (prompted by a prayer for truth, as I was pregnant at the time). I spent MANY years retraining my brain and thought process through the study of Torah. Now, ‘the other way’ seems completely ridiculous and I have such a hard time understanding how anyone could get past Deut.13 alone (of course, read from the Torah). I am a Noahide and look forward to converting (if needed) someday. I have recently received some information of my lost family lineage from Germany. It seems that I might just be one of the people that I was raised to see with such indifference. All glory to G-d…He will call His people home, regardless. Shalom!

      • hyechiel says:

        Dear Tiffany;
        HaShem does not demand you be of any lable to receive salvation. The one possible exception is Judaism, because all the souls of Israel were at Mount Sinai, and vowed; “We shall do, and we shall learn!”
        You have, and a good job of it you havve done. ow, as you apply what you know, think-is what I am doing as G-d wants me to? Not humans, but G-d.
        The rest is commentary.
        Shalom;
        Yechiel

        • Tiffany says:

          Funny thing is…I am not doing it for salvation. That seems quite superficial to me now. I am doing it to please the One that created me. I am here to fulfill a purpose. I find the closer that I become to Torah and leading a Torah life, things are much simpler and easier…clearer. I find great comfort in the law and have been overwhelmingly saddened by the hatred and distance that has come with the association. I know now why Jews keep to themselves…clearly.

          • hyechiel says:

            Dear Tiffany;
            Shalom and thank you for your comments. I have noticed that thousands of Christians have converted to Judaism. OK, if done for belief, but I feel that we need to find the comfort you mentioned, through service to HaShem. I do by trying to understand and to encourage people to love whom they are, as G-d intended. Each of us is a servant of His; each of us should learn how best to do as He wants us to do.
            Shalom;
            Yechiel

  6. Dear Mr. Cantor;
    I agree with you. I found an article that may help clearify why Jews cannot accept the Christian idea of a redeemer/Moshiac.
    http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm
    Maybe this will help? As I have stated several times, there is the Jewish Theology, based on Torah, and the Christian theology, based on the Gentile’s cultural point of view.
    Shalom;
    Yechiel

    • Tiffany says:

      Dear Sir,
      One thing to remember. The latter cannot replace or redefine the origin. You must read the Torah as if nothing else existed. Then try to fit the new testament into it…and it will just not go. You cannot approach it the other way around. There are soo many laws that prevent Jesus from fitting the messiah profile, period. Not only that, but the history of the Greek influence on the new testament is overwhemling, beginning with the Council of Nicea, where christs divinity was established…500 years after his death. He was created, literally as a challenge/test to the Jewish people, as defined in Deut 13. NO laws are to be added or deleted, period. Death to the doer without trial, period.

  7. Gil
    This is in response to your Feb 11 comment
    You argue that my letter to SY is an “exercise” – I am not sure what you mean by that but I have taken the Scriptures that are explicitly associated by the Author of Scripture with the Messianic future that we are discussing
    You have provided your own speculation based on passages that the Author of Scripture never associated with the subject that we are discussing – it is your own speculation – I already offered my own speculation in my eighth response to you – which I see as more closely aligned with Scripture than yours – but that is peripheral – can you please present an image of the Messiah prophesied by the prophets of Israel based on the explicit word of God?
    You may dismiss Brown – at least he tried to base his arguments on Scripture – go ahead and try to do the same

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