The Blood of the Lamb

The Blood of the Lamb

Christians are impressed that it was the blood (!) Of the lamb which saved the Jews in Egypt. Well it was. But it means something quite different than the meaning that Christians have read into it. In fact the blood of the lamb represents the precise opposite of the Christian claims for Jesus. It is the Jewish rejection of Jesus together with their rejection of all idolatry that saves the Jewish people.

We must ask ourselves. What did the blood mean to the Jews in Egypt? Why was the blood meaningful to God? And how did it save the Jewish people?

Answer: The Egyptians venerated the lamb. They couldn’t associate with anyone who herded sheep for the purpose of eating them (Genesis 43:32, 46:34, Exodus 8:22). For the Jew to slaughter the lamb it was an act of faith. Not in the lamb; but of faith in God. It takes courage to be different. First the Jew had to disengage from the Egyptian influence in his own mind, and then the Jew had to overcome his fear of the local population which would not take lightly to his slaughtering of their object of veneration. But if God commands, the Jew obeys. And God in His infinite mercy rewards our obedience even though it belongs to Him before we gave it to Him.

The blood of the lamb on the doorpost was a statement. The blood was a declaration that when you pass this doorpost you will no longer be in Egypt. Perhaps the geographical address is still Egypt, but the ideological location is far removed from Egypt. The blood on the doorpost proclaims that the people in this house have faith in God and in God alone. The destroying angel went through Egypt, but the homes with the blood were not “Egypt”.

So that’s the Passover lamb.

Today it is the Jew’s Mezuza that is the symbolic equivalent of the blood of the lamb. Wherever you see the Mezuza on the doorpost you can be sure they don’t worship the lamb in there. The Jewish home remains a bastion to faith in God and loyalty to His Law despite all of the extreme pressures that the worshipers of the lamb brought to bear in an effort to get the Jew to abandon his faith in God.

Ultimately, our rejection of the idolatrous influences of the nations around us will pay off. Those who hope to God, trust in Him, and in Him alone, will not be shamed (Isaiah 49:23).

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Thank You

Yisroel C. Blumenthal

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92 Responses to The Blood of the Lamb

  1. Thomas says:

    Great post (and the last one, knock knock, was breathtaking in its clarity).

    Just a small typo on this article:

    “And most Orthodox Jews would agree that the blood of the Passover lamb was a foreshadowing of Jesus’ blood.”

  2. Hi Thomas
    Thanks for the compliments
    that sentence is not a typo. The blood of the lamb represents not what the Jewish people worshiped but what they rejected – be it the forces of nature, Jesus, or any other idol that the populace around them had devoted themselves to. The blood of the lamb showed loyalty to God – and a rejection of the concept that we are subservient to the lamb. So yes – the blood represents Jesus together with all the other idols that Israel rejected throughout history in her loyalty to God.
    Thanks again
    Your Pharisee Friend

  3. uriyosef says:

    Powerful!!!

  4. Melissa Anderson says:

    Interesting that you parallel the Jewish rejection of Egyptian pagan practices with the Jewish rejection of x-tian idolotry. Apparently there is a lot borrowed from Egyptian mythology that seems to have a direct influence on x-tian theology. See http://paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com/no_1_original_saviour_gods_orisis.htm

  5. I beg to differ. The concept of “Foreshadowing” implies a certain legitimacy and credance to that notion. That there is such a concept, where is there such a concept that a certain mitzvah “foreshadows” a future event? What does foreshadow mean? that its going to happen? No. Nobody says that its going to happen. Additionally, as far as Jesus’ is concerned, I think it is a huge mistake to give him any particular credance, idolatrous or otherwise. Did he exist, did the events in the NT take place as they are described? I strongly disagree. If that is true then the very fact that anything can foreshadow a fictional account is rather ludicrous. That said, I think the statement on its own terms is very misleading. Idols are inanimate objects, at best, at worst they are living entities. However, from a western, Christian stand point, you basically said that all of Orthodox Judaism agrees with a fundamental doctrine of Christianity. Yes, you’ve explained it, but on the surface that is not what you said. I took three double takes, and re-read the sentence about 6 times. Its misleading, even if your meaning is explained.

  6. Daniel
    Jesus is fictional but the Christian faith in him is not – it is a reality – a reality that exerted itself with murderous force against our people to move us from our faith in God. Our loyalty to God will ultimately save us – and it is this loyalty to God – which includes rejection of Jesus together with the rejection of every fictional claim of the idolaters – that is “foresahdowed” in the blood of the lamb. In any case – I changed the wording on the basis of your criticism – thanks and Chag Sameach

  7. David Rasbold says:

    With all the prophecies in the Bible, from Genesis to the prophets, about the messiah coming and the details of each prophecy so clear, what makes you believe that this Jesus could not be the messiah? I am very interested to read your answer.

  8. danielpaulk says:

    Jesus could not be the messiah because of the following :-

    Main function of Messiah is to bring everlasting peace prophesied in scriptures. To make it clear that Jesus is not the messiah Jesus said to the Jews,” “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Mathew 10:34) Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.” (Luke.12:51) The person who says I have come to bring division, I have come to bring sword the messiah? Or was Jesus telling a lie while he was really the messiah?

    First he divided Jews into two group, (i) Jews who remained Jews who worship only Yahweh. (2) Jews who worship Jesus also as God along with Yahweh. Then he divided this Christians into innumerable denominations/fractions, to our astonishment even the Christians don’t know how many denominations/fractions they have. And each fraction of Christianity says all other fractions are wrong, fraud. Some Christians even says Pope is the Antichrist.They themselves don’t know which fraction is the right one? Can you say which fraction is the right one? On what basis do you say this Jesus is the messiah?

  9. ‘The Egyptians venerated the lamb.’ Evidence apart from Rashi please?

    We know they worshipped the ox and heifer forms, and virtually every other creature under the sun. We also know that ‘every shepherd is an abomination to the Egyptians’ which is a somewhat different, and that Moses warned ‘for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians’ – that doesn’t necessarily imply veneration, perhaps strong distaste.

    Second, Egyptians frequently ate the meat of the animals they worshipped.

    Third, why would the sacrifice of a bullock or goat (both also revered) have been any less iconoclastic?

    The great god being slain in the 10th plague was not a sheep god, it was Horus – the god of succession.

    • Sharbano says:

      Reading the comments I came across this statement.

      “Second, Egyptians frequently ate the meat of the animals they worshipped.”

      Rather sounds like “this is my body”, “this is my blood”.

  10. Charles
    Whether the Egyptians venerated the lamb or not is not relevant to the thrust of my argument. This much is clear from Scripture – that slaughtering the lamb was something that the Egyptians could not tolerate – either for cultural reasons or religious reasons – Exodus 8:22. Slaughtering the lamb in Egypt was a departure from the Egyptian mindset – and putting its blood on the doorpost was statement to that effect. It certainly stood as a statement of obedience to God – which was also apart from the Egyptian mindset who would obey others but not the Creator of all,

  11. Charles
    Do you have Scripture to back your assertion?

    • One example of many.
      There was no lack of repentance in Hezekiah’s day, but by itself it was insufficient to forgive sins.
      ‘And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.’ (2Ch 29:24)

      • Charles
        N one disputes that with the availability of a Temple we ought to express our repentance with the act of offering – but where do the Scripture state that without a Temple a blood offering is still required?

        • Yeshua the High Priest stood before the Angel of the Lord, Satan accusing him of the sins that soiled his garments. (Zech.3)
          The Temple foundation had been laid, but not yet completed. (Zech.4)
          It is the LORD (who through the mouth of the Angel) rebukes Satan – the basis of the laying of another Temple stone – one by which all the land’s iniquity would be cleansed – lies in the future. So it is with all the animal sacrifices, they represented a hope for something effective in the future.
          Only through a Priestly King, who sits on His throne in an effective Temple, may sins be remitted. (Zech.6)
          Only those who have entered covenant with the Most High (and covenants were ‘cut’, indicating blood shed) may stand in His presence. (Ps.50.5)
          This of course included all the holy ones like Daniel who looked forward to the unique consummating atonement described in chapter 9.24-6.
          Why else has God withdrawn the heart of Yom Kippur for 2,000 years, and left a blank wall for those who reject His gracious provision?

          • Sharbano says:

            Zechariah 3 does Not say Yeshua, at least Not in the Hebrew.

          • True, I don’t wish to mislead, but Yehoshua/Joshua and Yeshua are both used of the son of Nun.

          • Charles
            So the “heart” in your dictionary is the physical blood or the belief in the blood. Well Charles – I’m not sure if I could have proven my point any better than you have. The heart of Scripture as a whole and of every component part, including the Yom Kippur service, is the relationship between God and His people – and He promised us that we are never left with a “blank wall” – He is always there for us – Ezekiel 11:16 and His promises hold true.

          • I do wish that last statement were true, but as it stands it’s a delusion, our relationship with Him can only be founded on a solid atonement. ‘When I see the blood, I will pass over you,’
            Here is the watershed between life and death.

            Yes, the blood of the Lamb is central, without it there is no seeing the pledge of God’s love, the vindication of His justice, the accomplishment of His Law and the sight of just how much He was prepared to give for us, first Jews and then Gentiles. It is not like the blood of Abel, it cries out for better things…

      • your assertion that Israel cannot atone for sin without “jesus blood” couldn’t be farther from the truth…Nowhere in the Tanach does it even hint that “jesus blood” is needed for Israel to receive forgiveness of sin from Hashem.

        The prophet Daniel stood righteous before Hashem without a Temple. He didn’t need “jesus blood” or jesus in any fashion on order to stand righteous before Hashem.

        Ezekiel 14:14 even if these three men–Noah, Daniel and Job–were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

        You see, Daniel received forgiveness for his sins INDEPENDENT of jesus during the first exile. He did this by praying and sincerely repenting before Hashem. Daniel 6:11 states that he even did this in the face of death! Clearly, Daniel knew that his sincere repentance to Hashem brought him back to righteousness.

        He was simply following the words of Jeremiah!

        The context of Jeremiah 29 concerns what G-d expects of us during the exile in order to merit the rebuilding of the Holy Temple. Consider what is said in Jeremiah 29:12-14

        Jeremiah 29:12. And you shall call Me and go and pray to Me, and I will hearken to you.

        Jeremiah 29:13. And you will seek Me and find [Me] for you will seek Me with all your heart.

        Jeremiah 29:14. And I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will return your captivity and gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will return you to the place whence I exiled you.

        G-d expected that the Israelites would pray to Him while in Babylon. The result of their prayers and repentance allowed them to return to the land and rebuild the Holy Temple.

        This is precisely what Daniel did…

        And this is precisely what Orthodox Jews do today! Hosea gives us a similar message:

        Hosea 3:4. For the children of Israel shall remain for many days, having neither king, nor prince, nor sacrifice, nor pillar, nor ephod nor seraphim.

        Hosea 3:5. Afterwards shall the children of Israel RETURN, and seek the Lord their God and David their king, and they shall come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness at the end of days.

        How do we return to Hashem if we do not have any sacrifices? Hosea tells us in Hosea 14:2-3!

        Hosea 14:2. RETURN, O Israel, to the Lord your God, for you have STUMBLED IN YOUR INIQUITY.

        Clearly, the subject of the next verse explains HOW Israel is supposed to RETURN to Hashem so that OUR INIQUITIES WILL BE FORGIVEN. Of course, the next verse explains just that!

        Hosea 14:3 Take WORDS with yourselves and RETURN TO THE LORD. Say, “YOU SHALL FORGIVE ALL INIQUITY and teach us [the] good [way], and let us render [for] bulls [the offering of] our lips.

        Even though we have stumbled in our iniquity and have been put into exile, we still have a means of returning to Hashem though our sincere PRAYERS. We take our words and return to Hashem by saying; “FORGIVE ALL INIQUITY.” Nothing in Hosea 14:2-3 indicates that we need the blood of animals in order to atone for our sins during the exile. And most importantly, NOTHING in Hosea 14:2-3 says we need the blood of jesus!

        This is why Daniel was able to stand righteous before Hashem, praying three times a day, despite the fact that he knew he would be thrown into a pit of lions if he continued to do so. Yet he continued to do so in the face of death! (Daniel 6:11)

        If the Jewish people did not need “jesus blood” to merit the rebuilding of the Holy Temple during the first exile, then why would we need it now?!

        Hebrews 9:22 is a false statement. It erroneously claims that “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.”

        Lets take a look at II Chronicles 30:16-20 where it is HEZEKIAH’S PRAYER and NOT BLOOD which ATONES for the sins of the people…
        


        II Chronicles 30:16. And they stood in their station as was their custom, according to the Torah of Moses, the man of God; the priests sprinkled the blood from the hand of the Levites.
        


        II Chronicles 30:17. For there were many among the congregation who had not consecrated themselves, and the Levites were in charge of the slaughter of the Passover sacrifices for everyone who was unclean, to make it holy for the Lord.



        II Chronicles 30:18. For a multitude of the people, many from Ephraim and Manasseh, Issachar and Zebulun, had not purified themselves, for they ate the Passover sacrifice not as it is written, for **Hezekiah had PRAYED**for them, saying, **”MAY THE GOOD LORD ATONE FOR**
        


        II Chronicles 30:19. anyone who has set his whole heart to seek God, the Lord, the God of his forefathers, though [he be] not [cleaned] according to the purity that pertains the holy things.”
        


        II Chronicles 30:20. **And THE LORD HEARKENED TO HEZEKIAH and HEALED the people.**



        The Hebrew word יְכַפֵּר is used in verse 18. It means ATONE! Here we see that in the case of Hezekiah’s passover, many of his Israelite guests DID NOT cleanse themselves with BLOOD according to the Law of Moses. In order to ATONE for the sins of his people, King Hezekiah PRAYED TO HASHEM that he should grant ATONEMENT for all those in his Kingdom who truly turned their hearts to Hashem. 

Now, to further expand on this…In verse 16, it clearly states that the Levites were in charge of sprinkling BLOOD to purify Israel as it is stated in the Torah of Moses…Now, verses 17 and 18 say that there were many in Israel WHO DID NOT PURIFY THEMSELVES WITH THE **BLOOD** AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE TORAH! 

When someone disobeys a Law in the Torah, what do we call that? We call it a SIN! Here, there were individuals who SINNED by NOT being purified by the LEVITICAL PRIESTS OF THE HOLY TEMPLE with BLOOD! Now, according to Hebrews 9:22, the only way to ATONE FOR SIN is through BLOOD! But here, the sin that was committed was that they DIDN’T use blood for atonement…So how is this sin atoned for?

        According to Hebrew 9:22, it has to be blood! But is that how this sin was atoned for? NO! Their sins were atoned for in this manner:



        II Chronicles 30:18 **Hezekiah had PRAYED**for them, saying, **”MAY THE GOOD LORD ATONE FOR**
        


        II Chronicles 30:19. anyone who has set his whole heart to seek God, the Lord, the God of his forefathers, though [he be] not [cleaned] according to the purity that pertains the holy things.”



        II Chronicles 30:20. **And THE LORD HEARKENED TO HEZEKIAH and HEALED the people.**

        

The sin of those not purified with the blood was atoned for through PRAYER!

 Thus, Hebrews 9:22 is an inaccurate statement…

        And if you are still skeptical about atonement without blood, The Hebrew word יִּרְפָּא is used in verse 20 for the word “healed.” The root of this word is רְפָּא which means heal. Amazingly, this same root is used in Isaiah 53:5
        Isaiah 53:5. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were **HEALED.**

        The Hebrew word נִרְפָּא is used in verse Isaiah 53:5 for the word “healed.” This shares the SAME ROOT with יִּרְפָּא as shown above. In both cases, (Isaiah 53:5 and II Chronicles 30:20) a form of the word רְפָּא is used for the word “healed.”
        Clearly, there are circumstances in which atonement can be made through PRAYER, particularly when blood sacrifice is not immediately available…

        II Chronicles 33:9-13 demonstrates this same principle:

        II Chronicles 33:9-13: “And Manasseh led Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem astray to do what was evil, more than the nations whom the Lord had destroyed from before the Children of Israel. And the Lord spoke to Manasseh and to his people, but they did not listen. And the Lord brought upon them the generals of the king of Assyria, and they seized Manasseh with hooks and bound him with copper chains and brought him to Babylon. And when he was distressed, he entreated the Lord his God, and he humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers. And he PRAYED to Him, and He accepted his prayer, and He heard his supplication and He restored him to Jerusalem to his kingdom, and Manasseh knew that the Lord was God.”

        Here we see that Manasseh used PRAYER to receive forgiveness of his sins as well. We see that when blood sacrifice is not available, prayer is a valid method of atonement for sin. Also keep in mind that under Manasseh’s rule, the kingdom of Judah was more idolatrous than it had ever been in the past! Clearly, Manasseh’s prayer served as a means of forgiveness/atonement without blood sacrifice and most importantly, without jesus!

        Here we have a cause and effect: King Manasseh says a prayer asking for forgiveness and G-d accepts his prayer and restores him as King of Judah. No blood sacrifice was used to atone for King Manasseh as there is nothing in the text that would indicate such.

        This proves that Hebrews 9:22 is a false statement. Blood sacrifice is not the only way to atone for sin. Your jesus has nothing to with our atonement.

        Shalom

        • Dina says:

          Yehuda Yisrael, it’s like what Rabbi Blumenthal says, the Tanach is the best countermissionary book ever written.

          Excellent comment, as usual!

  12. Dina says:

    Just following. Thanks!

  13. Charles
    Yes – the blood of the lamb is central – inasmuch as it represents rejection of faith in the lamb and it represents faith in God and loyalty to His commandment – to see who is delusional – just see how many times the word “atonement” is associated with the Passover offering

    • cpsoper says:

      Some blood sacrifices indeed do hold especial primary reference to making atonement, primarily the sin and trespass offerings (Lev.4.20.26,31,35; 5.6,10,13,16,18; 6.7; 7.7), whilst the burnt offering is often linked to atonement (Lev.1.4, 16.24). Of the 15 mentions of atonement on the great Day, most are tied to the sin offering, only one explicitly to the burnt offering.

      The Passover is itself primarily a sin offering. The analogy to the Lord’s appointed destroyer is manifest in Ezekiel 9, and in 2 Samuel 28.16 This avenger requires and demands satisfaction for the violated Law, and it is by this right he has claims not only all of Egypt, but also all of Israel. Only those covered by the blood sacrifice, and who remain within the lintels of the household covered are protected from his just execution.

      Beware all who read, if you rely on an inefficacious, bloodless atonement, ‘when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you’. You live unprotected, and the sword of Divine justice is stretched out above you.

      David upon seeing that Divine blade poised over Jerusalem, ran to what is now the Temple Mount. Once there he offered burnt and peace offerings. He did not offer an sin or a trespass offering. He said something else which foresaw the fusion of the monarchy and the priesthood, and which alone could take away the iniquity of the land in a day.
      ‘Let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father’s house.’

      הַדָּם הוּא, בַּנֶּפֶשׁ יְכַפֵּר

      • Tsvi Jacobson says:

        Charles: The many verses that show God forgiving his people without a blood offering. Daniel in exile , Hosea 14, Leviticus 5 the poor who only offered flour speaks loudly against Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood is no remission” You just cannot prove your contention only using Tanakh. You know this as it stares you in the face. You need your New Testament. But you fail to recognize that to us as a Jew we cannot just accept as Messiah one whose writings contradict our tanakh. The only Jews that accept your savior are those who either emotionally are swayed or are ignorant of the few fact I just presented in my reply. I know of whom I speak. Tsvi

        • cpsoper says:

          I see I’m not alone in finding Rashi’s thesis that Passover was primarily a feast of Egyptian iconoclasm dubious and unhistorical http://frumheretic.blogspot.com/2009/03/sheep-worship-in-ancient-egypt.html

          Daniel looked for the sevenfold fulfilment spoken of at the end of chapter 9, six of which are found in verse 24, all of which are predicated on an unprecedented and perfect atonement: לְכַלֵּא הַפֶּשַׁע ולחתם (וּלְהָתֵם) חטאות (חַטָּאת) וּלְכַפֵּר עָו‍ֹן, וּלְהָבִיא, צֶדֶק עֹלָמִים; וְלַחְתֹּם חָזוֹן וְנָבִיא, וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָדָשִׁים.

          Hosea 14.3 speaks of a thank offering, not atonement or redemption.

          None of the offerings in Leviticus 5 suffice to atone adequately – how can animal blood actually stand in for or cleanse human sin? They are but pictures of a real propitiation, and flour is the poorest picture of all.

          Only the Suffering Servant of HaShem can take away our guilt, only His stripes heal us, only His chastisement purchase our peace, and for this the Messiah must be cut off, Joseph rejected, David go into exile and by His experience justify us. All other hopes apart from our Redeemer (גֹּאֲלֵנוּ) must perish.

          • Fred says:

            I will ask you, like I have the others, to show me from Tanakh where it says that the sacrificial system “pointed to” or “foreshadowed” a future human sacrifice.

            There is a reason why flour was a “poor picture” of a human sacrifice. Because it wasn’t supposed to be a picture of a future human sacrifice. The sacrificial system was very complex. If it were meant to exist for the SOLE purpose of “pointing to” a human sacrifice, then it would have been much simpler, and again, would have been clarified by God as a foreshadowing. But God gave no such warning or even hinted that the sacrifices pointed to a human sacrifice, something he condemned as a grievous sin. Instead, God gives us plain pictures of the Messianic Age and the Messiah, and is CLEAR that this is what he is showing us in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, among others. Yet, you and other Christians ( or fake Christians as are common to this blog) choose to ignore the plain prophecies given by God and instead read prophecy into texts that are not given as prophecies. Eisegesis is the worst of all interpretational transgressions and a guarantee that you will not get the true meaning of the text or the bigger picture.

            >>>>None of the offerings in Leviticus 5 suffice to atone adequately – how can animal blood actually stand in for or cleanse human sin? <<<

            How is human blood any better? Humans are not even kosher as animals, let alone proper for atonement. Maybe that is why repentance has always been the preferred means of atonement. I suggest you read Hebrews again and come back and tell me how you believe Christianity has done in fulfilling the message, method and promises proscribed by that book.

          • cpsoper says:

            No Fred a poor picture of blood sacrifice.
            As to the issue of human sacrifice, why have you never read Numbers 25.13, or the inadvertent sacrifice of Numbers 16.37-38? Why did HaShem command Abraham to offer up his son, if it was never intended to be a burnt offering? What about Jephthah’s offering of his own daughter?
            What dreadful judgement is depicted in Ezekiel 39.17 and 18 as a sacrifice? What is intended by dark side of the Lord’s redemption in Isaiah 63.3-4?

            Atonement is about the meeting out of justice, and full justice involves punishment. If it is not met in our substitute it must be met in us.

        • Hebrews 9:21-22
          “Moreover, he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vesseles of ministry, and almost all things are BY THE LAW purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission”

          To me, this seems not to be a brand new Christian theology of atonement, rather it is an faithful interpretation of the LAW because already Leviticus 17:11 says, “for it is the BLOOD that makes an atonement for the soul”

          Of course, the blood itself on the door post has no power, it is just expression of courage, obedience, and faith in God (good reminder, thanks), but one of the reasons why Messianic gentiles believe the blood of the lamb has connection with the afflicted Messiah is based on Isaiah 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth, he is brought as a LAMB to thr slaughter and as a SHEEP before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth”

          I thank my fellow Jews who initiated to slaughter the lamb of God on the cross to make atonement for such a sinful gentile like me. You are truly Priest Nation.

          • robert2016 says:

            Leviticus 17:11 says, “for it is the BLOOD that makes an atonement for the soul”

            Isaiah 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth, he is brought as a LAMB to thr slaughter and as a SHEEP before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth”

            but one of the reasons why Messianic gentiles believe the blood of the lamb has connection with the afflicted Messiah is based on

            …………………..
            there is no blood atonement in is 53:7
            oppression and affliction may cause feeling sorry for the persons, but open wounds and blood pouring out has no atonement in it. no ritual sacrifice in is 53

          • Yes, there is no direct mention of “blood atonement” but i am wondering if anyone can say ISAIAH 53 has nothing to do with atonement and blood image:
            5. ..He was wounded for our transgression, he was bruised for our iniquities…
            6. … the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all…
            8. …for the transgression of my people was he stricken…
            10. …when thou shalt make his soul (life, blood) an OFFERING FOR SIN (antonement)
            11. …. for he shall bear their iniquities
            12. … He bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressions.

          • Sharbano says:

            The correct translation is “He was pained Because of our rebellious sins and oppressed Through Our iniquities”.

          • Ok, thank you Sharbano.

          • robert2016 says:

            “10. …when thou shalt make his soul (life, blood) an OFFERING FOR SIN (antonement)”

            his death, blood, flesh and life is not a ritual sacrifice.
            the only thing verse 10 seems to be saying is that he risked his life , not that he died.
            “my soul is deeply troubled even unto death”
            no death here
            there are other ways to make soul offering for sin without dying

            quote:
            Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.

            Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed.

            But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.

            seems like the verse you quoted is linked back to the 3 verses i just quoted.

            other translations

            10And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God’s purpose shall prosper in his hand.

            he has to acknowledge his own sin . this translation gives the impression that the servant is a sinner. no animal type of offering can be derived from verse 10.

          • robert2016: you said
            “the only thing verse 10 seems to be saying is that he risked his life, not that he died” ?

            Yes, “risking life” is in this verse but it says “though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering”! ‘guilt offering’ is not half dead or 99% dead, it is “Dead”! Doesn’t the context also say that? “for he was CUT OFF from the land of the LIVING”(v.8) ,
            “with the rich in his DEATH”(v.9)

            you said “he has to acknowledge his own sin” ??
            then how do you understand verse 11 “… by his knowledge my RIGHTEOUS servant will JUSTIFY many”?

          • robert2016 says:

            “Yes, “risking life” is in this verse but it says “though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering”! ‘guilt offering’ is not half dead or 99% dead, it is “Dead”!”
            ………………………………………………..
            you are viewing this in light animal sacrifices. you really think a human is a guilt offering? the text does not say that the death = atonement or that the soul /life/whatever died for atonement. it doesn’t even say it died.
            was jesus a sin offering or a guilt offering?

            “Doesn’t the context also say that? “for he was CUT OFF from the land of the LIVING”(v.8) ,”

            assuming “cut off ” means “death” where does it say that its death = atonement for sins? where does it say that it’s death saves/atones?

            “with the rich in his DEATH”(v.9)

            NOTHING about atonement

            …………………………
            you said “he has to acknowledge his own sin” ??
            then how do you understand verse 11 “… by his knowledge my RIGHTEOUS servant will JUSTIFY many”?
            …………………………………………………..
            how come it doesn’t say that the DEATH /offering will justify many?
            why is it knowledge which will save ? why did you capitalize “righteous” ? don’t you know that even righteous noah, daniel and job sinned according to christianity?

            here is the jewish understanding

            http://judaismsanswer.com/Isaiah%2053%20Part%202%20-%20Gods%20View.htm

          • Yes, the text does not literally say, “his death will atone,” But the natural reading of the chapter leads me that way, i am sorry I can’t deny. However, I understand ‘the atonement through human death
            ‘makes no sense to Judaism. How can a dead man save anybody? I see your frustration.

            But the Biblical and original Christianity does not teach that way. Atonement should be differentiated from salvation. Atonement, as you know, is to come nearer to God, to gain access to the presence of God. So Hebrews 10:19-20″Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jeshua, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body”

            I understand the salvation is eternal life, and Jeshua defined in John 17:3″ Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the ONE true God and Jeshua Messiah, whom you have sent.” So, i understand that salvation is to have holy and intimate fellowship with HaShem and the Messiah forever.

            I think Christianity might have impressed unfortunately that the crucifixion itself saves people, but it is not what the New Testament teaches. His death atones and reconciles sinners, and His resurrection saves and justifies by indwelling of His righteous and holy Spirit in us.

            Romans 4:25″He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.”
            Romans 5:10 ” for if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His LIFE!”

            Salvation does not come by watching and believing crucifixion, rather by living relationship with HaShem and actions with faith in what HaShem has done through Israel, the first born son of God, and Jeshua, the first born Son of God.

          • Sharbano says:

            The image of a lamb doesn’t really fit with a messiah. The image is more reflective of the holocaust. What you are reading is a history of the Jewish nation.

          • Yes, you are right. The Messiah should be as Davidic figure who is a king and warrior. Isaiah 53 seems unfit to that. However, The crucifixion is the Messiah’s humbleness and emptying of his power. We see the same character in David’s life.

            New Testament reports that Jeshua actually had the power and authority but he did not use it for the purpose of atoning task on the cross.

            Examples: when Peter struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear , Jeshua said,”Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” (MT 26:53)

            When the people looked for Jeshua to seize on the Mt. OLIVES, Jeshua asked, “who is it you want?” They replied “Jesus of Nazareth” At the word of Jeshua saying “I AM HE!” They drew back and fell to the ground. (JOHN 18:6) — you remember the SAME thing happened in 1 Samuel 14:13 , right? “Jonathan climbed up, using his hands and feet, with his armor-bearer right behind him. The Philistines fell before Jonathan, and his armor bearer followed and killed behind him.”

            Luke 4:17 reports that Jeshua preached in the synagogue in his home town Nazareth, quoting Isaiah 61:1-2, and he stopped at “to proclaim the year of the Lord’s FAVOR.” and he rolled up the scroll. Why did he omit the next sentence, “and the day of VENGEANCE of our God.”? Because he would fulfill the prophecy of atonement through His death. Then when He will fulfill the Vengeance part? On His second coming! The Revelations 19 prophesy that Jeshua the Messiah will come again as the conquering King, the Lion of Judah and execute the judgement upon all the enemies of God’s people!

          • Sharbano says:

            To suggest humbleness because of a crucifixion is nothing but a ‘throw out there’ statement. It has no basis in reality. Xtian will say literally anything to make Isaiah 53 work for them. No matter what, the context just doesn’t support the case.

          • robert2016 says:

            “Atonement should be differentiated from salvation. Atonement, as you know, is to come nearer to God, to gain access to the presence of God. So Hebrews 10:19-20″Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jeshua, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body”

            why does anybody need jesus’ blood before one speak to god? why need blood from anything? christians say people are going to be burned in hell . shall i watch burning ritual and use it to speak to god? is there a time when no shedding of blood is required and forgiveness is pure and free of blood?

          • Thank you for your reply. I hope there is an open door for us to speak directly to God but unfortunately since Adam sinned and hid himself from God while God searched for him, there has been wall- flaming sword (Gen.3:24) between G_d and us.

            Why HaShem warned and put limits between Him and the Israelites in the Mt. Sinai? Why He required the priests who approached the Lord to consecrate themselves? (Exodus19:21-25) Let us not forget this happened even before the Law was given!

            “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear”(Isa.59:2-3) My personal life proves this. No one accused me of my secret sins, nevertheless I did not search for God, I did not want to call Him. I know it is because of the sin in me.

            Yes, God can speak to people without requiring blood atonement, actually I think He always does so because He always wants to have relationship with us. But the problem is WE who do not want to come to the Light and talk to Him because we want not our darkness to be disclosed.

            We want to assure that our sins are forgiven but self-assurance cannot make us believe that we are truly forgiven. There is always doubt in us.

            Let’s say, one day a criminal who has been sentenced to death set free and discharged from the prison and sent immediately back to home. Would he enjoy the new life?
            Maybe not. He would search for the evidence or documents that legally prove the dismissal of his case!

            From the infinite mercy and love of our G_D, He provided the “once and for all” legal document sealed with the blood of the Son of G_D so that anybody could come to Him with confidence. G_D INVITES, not require to the table of the atonement so that we enjoy abundant life with Him.

          • Gean Guk Jeon God Himself is capable iof forgetting our sins and wiping them clean without the services of a human body and we trust God on His word – if you need a document you have Ezekiel 18 and 33 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • cpsoper says:

            Can God break His own Law? Can He lie? The soul that sins it shall surely die.
            Repentance and sincere intentions alone will never, ever justify, only appointed redemption and a Redeemer can accomplish deliverance from the snare of our sin.
            What is the missing Temple all about if not the price of atonement?

          • cpsoper I suggest you take up your argument with Ezekiel and Isaiah

            1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • cpsoper says:

            I respectfully suggest both aver as strongly as Moses the necessity for a blood atonement to justify. Isaiah received his commission in a vision of the place of blood sacrifice before the enthroned High Priest, Who is our Righteousness, and Ezekiel’s prophecy concludes with a vision of the Sanctuary in which the sacrificing Prince is central, 45.22.

          • cpsoper So as is your way – you’ll ignore their explicit words and find solace in any metaphor that you could find so that you can hang on to your man-made theology 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • cpsoper says:

            Whether the passages cited are wrenched or properly explained I am content now to let others weigh carefully, though I too have studied them carefully and their significance to the question. However to conclude that the bare mention of repentance in Ezekiel 33 and Isaiah 55 indicates that it alone is sufficient for atonement is reckless and dangerous exegesis, especially given the many references to blood atonement in adjacent passages in the same books. Both prophets would repudiate such a blinkered position, it belies God’s justice and fails to vindicate His vengeance. Good deeds, even if we could perform them, will never, never atone for bad. True repentance looks and longs for the Divine gift of righteousness, buying milk and wine without money and without price. The enduring Divine covenant which alone brings mercy is void without a surety.

          • cpsoper God’s word is surety enough 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • robert2016 says:

            “Thank you for your reply. I hope there is an open door for us to speak directly to God but unfortunately since Adam sinned and hid himself from God while God searched for him, there has been wall- flaming sword (Gen.3:24) between G_d and us.”

            but i don’t think there is a flaming sword between god and sincerely repentant who sincerely seeks god. if god hears and sees and is close then jesus becomes redundant.

            “Why HaShem warned and put limits between Him and the Israelites in the Mt. Sinai? Why He required the priests who approached the Lord to consecrate themselves? (Exodus19:21-25) Let us not forget this happened even before the Law was given!”

            but i don’t think one require intermediaries to speak to god. if god hears and sees and is kind , then he does not require human blood before he can answer.

            ““But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear”(Isa.59:2-3) My personal life proves this. No one accused me of my secret sins, nevertheless I did not search for God, I did not want to call Him. I know it is because of the sin in me.”

            your personal life does not prove to me that blood is required before god speaks to anyone.

            “Yes, God can speak to people without requiring blood atonement, actually I think He always does so because He always wants to have relationship with us. But the problem is WE who do not want to come to the Light and talk to Him because we want not our darkness to be disclosed.”

            but i do want to talk to the creator and i don’t think a human sacrficial ritual is required before i talk to him. how close or intimate is conversation with god if one has to think of ritual human sacrifice?

            “From the infinite mercy and love of our G_D, He provided the “once and for all” legal document sealed with the blood of the Son of G_D so that anybody could come to Him with confidence.”

            infinite mercy and love of god ? god couldn’t escape from sacrificing himself so where is infinite mercy and love?
            does mercy and love really require a god to come down and do ritual animal sacrifice to himself? if yes, then doesn’t love mean that it is dependant on ritual killing?
            tell me why are sincerely penitent heart cannot speak to god and if god is infinite in mercy and love he can’t answer without ritual killing?
            how close is your relationship with god if one always has to go through “sealed blood document” ? why not god see his own bloodless mercy ?

          • I agree with you that sincerely penitent heart can speak to God and there are cases when God forgave the penitent heart without blood atonement. BUT penitence is enough for us and for God? Would you forgive the IS terrorists and criminals who are responsible for Holocaust when they truly cry and repent? There might be some who ran away from prosecution and enjoyed the rest of their lives and died. Where is the vengence? Where is the justice of God? Brother… Hell is needed!!

            To me it is not psychological, emotional and verbal penitence that renew our heart, it is “paying the price” that really set us free from the bondage. God wants to pay the price to be JUST God and FAITHFUL to keep His words.

            1. “For when you eat of it you will SURELY die” Gen.2:17 Adam died because he did not truly repent?
            2. The Law reveals the justice of God. Repentance is just a small part of qualifications to be forgiven. Isn’t the “Paying the price” the pervasive idea in all the law? LEVITICUS 17:11 “it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life”
            Let us look carefully how the Law says “it is the BLOOD (NOT animal blood) that atones”
            3.Although David poured out his heart, truly repent, fast all day lying on the ground, he had to pay the price; God struck his new born son.(2Sam.12)
            4. “

          • Gean Guk Jeon So you think God was making a joke in Ezekiel 33? -and would you be happy if an Isis terrorist or Hitler got away with killing a lamb? 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • My pharisee friend! I like your passion for the word of God. I hope to learn from you and find the Truth together through our conversations.

            I dont think God was joking. I think you are right in Ezekiel 33 God saves those who repent and do righteousness without blood atonement. But I also think we need to look through briefly the whole Tanakh how God revealed the way of life and salvation.

            In the Garden of Eden, not to eat of the tree of good and evil was the way of life.
            To Cain, to receive the mark from the Lord was the way of life.
            To Noah, to build an ark and enter it was the way of salvation.
            To Lot, to get out of Solomon was the way.
            To Moses who was at a lodging place on the way to Egypt, Zipporah’s cutting off her son’s foreskin and touch Moses’ feet.
            To Hebrews in Egypt, to put the blood of the lamb on the doorpost.
            When got snake bites in the wilderness, to look at the bronze snake on a pole.
            In the land of Israel, to listen and obey the Word of HaShem.
            In the tims of prophets like Ezekiel 33, social justice and obedience to the law.
            In Malachi, bringing the whole tithes and the prophet Elijah turning the hearts of fathers to children and children to fathers.

            God spoke in different manners in different times. We can’t impose Ezekiel 33 as one way of salvation upon all the biblical history. We must hear up to date voice of the Lord.

            Hebrews 1: 1 ” In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe”

          • Gean Guk Jeon
            There was always one way and that is obedience – to God, not to anyone else

          • Amen to that! If I lived in Israel 570 B.C.E. I would listen and obey the Word of God through prophet Jeremiah. If I lived in Israel 30 C.E. I would obey the Word of God through Jeshua, Now I do my best to obey the Revelation of God through 66 books of the Bible. That is why John 1:14 says, “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us…”

          • Dina says:

            Gean, you wrote, “God spoke in different manners in different times. We can’t impose Ezekiel 33 as one way of salvation upon all the biblical history. We must hear up to date voice of the Lord.”

            At this point, 2000 years ago is not very much more up to date than 2500 years ago and so on.

            The first few examples you give are not relevant because they apply to individuals or to a specific national crisis. The last three examples are more general and they apply as much today as they did then. It’s obvious this is so when you read all the examples in context.

            Search the Hebrew Bible and see how many times the phrase “eternal covenant” appears in conjunction with a particular commandment. I think you will find this exercise instructive.

          • Thanks for the comment. When I said, “Up to date” i meant “contemporary” Whatever God says in particular times and places, we must obey.

            I believe that the Old Covenant with Israel is still valid as the New Covenant with church. Yes, since God is eternal and foresees from the beginning into eternity, His words and covenants are eternal.

            Do you mean, because He makes “eternal covenant,” His rule of salvation is eternally same in all the ages and places?

          • Dina says:

            Hi Gean,

            I’m not sure I understand your question, but I will try to clarify. If God commands something and says it is eternally binding, then what other language would you want God to employ to be more clear? God disagrees with you that His commandments apply only in certain times and places.

            Here’s a relevant example, since we’re in the midst of celebrating Passover. God commands the Jews to keep this holiday, to eat matzos, and not to eat leavened bread. In this passage from Exodus 12:14-20, God uses the terms “eternal decree” twice, “for your generations” once, and “that soul shall be cut off from Israel [regarding one who eats leavened bread]” twice.

            In the passage in Exodus 13:3-10, the term “from year to year” is not given an expiration date.

            God could not be more clear that He expects us to observe Passover every year, forever, eating matzos and refraining from eating leavened bread.

            The clear teachings of the Torah are eternal and apply to every time and place that we find ourselves in.

            I hope this helps!

          • Shalom Dina. Sorry for the late response. Your argument really helped my understanding of the concept of “eternal covenant.” I put my new thought and discovery about this issue on my blog because it is too long to post here. I humbly invite you to see it on my blog. https://shalomshalomisrael.wordpress.com/2016/05/01/the-progressive-revelation-of-passover-%ec%9c%a0%ec%9b%94%ec%a0%88%ec%97%90-%eb%8c%80%ed%95%9c-%ec%a0%90%ec%a7%84%ec%a0%81%ec%9d%b8-%ea%b3%84%ec%8b%9c/
            The title is “The progressive revelation of passover” under the category of “the mysteries of Israel in the Bible” you are more than welcomed to comment. Thanks.

          • Jeremiah 14:20ff says,” O Lord, we acknowledge our wickedness and the guilt of our fathers; we have indeed sinned against you… Remember your Covenant with us and do not break it…”
            15:1 ” Then the Lord said to me.
            “Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people…”

            I am a type of PROPHET Jonah. I can’t understand why God forgave such a wicked nation as Assyria when they repent? The penalty of cruel peeling off human skins for long years just vanish away when they repent?

            I would not believe or follow the unjust God of Israel unless HE said ” I poured out THE wrath upon my Son on the cross.”

          • Gean Guk Jeon Jonah KNEW that God is a merciful God and that he will forgive 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • Yes, you’re right. He knew that. But the question is why he would rather die than go to Nineveh? What do you think?

            God could have raised up a Gentile spiritist or religious priest to declare the simple message- “Nineveh will fall down in 40 days” and make the citizens repent and be saved from the calamity. Nothing is impossible with our HaShem!! Amen?

            But why God had to send him and to put him physically there and to make him walk and preach the message? I think because God knew that the citizens would not repent if they hear from a fellow citizen however serious, religious or passionate he was.

            God had to send His servant from far away, who has blazing eyes, blunt face, and serious voice, like a man who came back to life from dead and tell the truth at the expense of his life. Actually Jonah was such a man. So was Jeshua.

            In The book of Jonah, we see God continued to try to kill his servant physically, emotionally, and logically (by sending storm, being thrown into the water, making him preach the provocative message in the dangerous land, sending worm which chew the vine over his head, sending scorching east wind with sun blazing, and talking to him like the God of Israel is on the side of enemy of Israel) in order to save many lives.

            It was the Lord’s will to crush His Son and cause him to suffer to save you and me.

            Crucifixion is not a separate program of atonement apart from repentance. Crucifixion is God running into our Nineveh to MAKE us repent and come back to Him!

          • Gean Guk Jeon Jonah never claimed sinlessness or divinity and God’s true servants follow suit. The righteous of Israel are God’s servant and His witness and some obey while others don’t 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • robert2016 says:

            humans are limited and need to give up their lives . they are forced into a corner. why does the creator of life and death and giver of life and death need to be cornered and sacrificed ? does god think like man? is his ways like man? man has been appeasing mans emotions by cutting neck of children to appease the gods.

            in christianity, god damns everyone because every one he created “born in sin” then when one wants to speak to god, god says , “hold on, let me go and brutally murder myself before i speak to you”

            1. he makes man born in sin.
            2. man cries out to him day and night, “please answer me god, answer me”
            3. god says , “because i made you born in sin and you are spiritual wreck, i need to sacrifice myself and you need this ritual of sacrifice between you and me

            this is not “infinite mercy and love”

          • robert2016 says:

            “I agree with you that sincerely penitent heart can speak to God and there are cases when God forgave the penitent heart without blood atonement. BUT penitence is enough for us and for God? Would you forgive the IS terrorists and criminals who are responsible for Holocaust when they truly cry and repent? There might be some who ran away from prosecution and enjoyed the rest of their lives and died. Where is the vengence? Where is the justice of God? Brother… Hell is needed!!”

            you are asking me what i would do and many people do forgive without harming themselves later on but gods ways is not like our ways.
            If God knows the human is weak then why can’t forgiveness be part of his justice, why can’t he warn? isn’t that what he does in the bible? is hell needed for sincerely repentant who sincerely seek the face of god?

            “To me it is not psychological, emotional and verbal penitence that renew our heart, it is “paying the price” that really set us free from the bondage. God wants to pay the price to be JUST God and FAITHFUL to keep His words.”

            god “pays” the price through his fairness, kindness and mercy. he see his own righteousness in his own attributes. i am sure god would not require a murder ritual before one talks to him i am sure of it.

          • robert2016 says:

            “There might be some who ran away from prosecution and enjoyed the rest of their lives and died”

            god can punish anytime he wants. he can even cleanse the person by punishing him. but what you say is the christian line. christians sin from monday-friday and they tell themselves that they are free from divine wrath.

            tell the truth. when the prophets in the hebrew bible REPENTED did they acknowledge that God could bring his wrath anytime?
            so clearly prophets of the old repented with fear of Gods punishment, but christianity teaches the opposite. it says “no more punishment if you wash yourself in jesus blood”

          • robert2016 says:

            “Repentance and sincere intentions alone will never, ever justify, only appointed redemption and a Redeemer can accomplish deliverance from the snare of our sin.”

            by punishing himself is god telling humans that he quit?

          • robert2016 says:

            “In The book of Jonah, we see God continued to try to kill his servant physically, emotionally, and logically (by sending storm, being thrown into the water, making him preach the provocative message in the dangerous land, sending worm which chew the vine over his head, sending scorching east wind with sun blazing, and talking to him like the God of Israel is on the side of enemy of Israel) in order to save many lives.”

            did jonah say that one comes to god through the suffering of jonah? did jonah focus attention on himself/did god?

          • Good question. The text doesn’t say that one comes to God through the suffering of Jonah. Neither it says that one comes to God regardless of the suffering of Jonah. We do know that the repentance from iniquities is not free. Somebody has to go and cost time, energy, even life to tell the truth and the coming judgement of God. Ask Moses, ask Jonah, ask Jeremiah, and ask Jeshua.

          • robert2016 says:

            “Crucifixion is not a separate program of atonement apart from repentance. Crucifixion is God running into our Nineveh to MAKE us repent and come back to Him!”

            but you tell yourself that your god saved himself and his now enjoying heavenly rewards and is living a peaceful life. doesn’t that effect your repentance? don’t christians after their repentance celebrate in church the resurrection of their god ?
            its like you have to beat up jesus in your mind, then tell yourself he has fully recovered from the beating and then celebrate his recovery . what is the point of this?
            since none of the beating changes a christians sinful nature, why not ask god to forgive without jesus?

          • Sorry for the late response. I hope you had a wonderful Passover. Your words really make me reexamine my spiritual life. Frankly, you are right. i am, as a Messianic gentile, confused whenever i face passover week because there are totally different moods within the week. For example, i force myself to focus on repentance from my sins as i approach the day of Crucifixion, (pre-rejoicing of the resurrection during the suffering week make me feel guilty ^^) and encourage myself to create a joy in me of the resurrection after the Good Friday although there is not much to rejoice in my life circumstance. This is a little awkward practice of my faith every year.

            I have a question. In Deuteronomy 16, there are specific commandments in each feasts: Passover, Festival of Weeks, and Festival of Tabernacles.
            God commands “rejoicing” in the festivals except the Passover. During Passover, God commands “eating the bread of affliction (bitter herb? i don’t know)” Seems to me that the Passover is for remembering affliction? but my question is this; “Isn’t that a season of great joy when Hashem liberated Israelites from slavery? then, why eating bread of affliction?”

            Secondly, 2 Chronicles 30:13-27 tells us that they celebrated the Passover with great joy! and they agreed to extend 7 more days! Praise Adonai Eloheinu! Even though the observing the Passover did not start smoothly at first, God healed and they could not calm down their excitement. I love this… So question is “during the Passover, aren’t they also breaking the law by uncleanness of some tribes, repentance and bitterness and joy mixed together?” I don’t know i just see similarity between this joyful awkwardness of these two group of people^^

          • Gean Guk Jones Excellent question All of the holidays are times of joy – the bread of poverty reminds us of the suffering we were saved from – and it also reminds us of the poverty of all creation before the Creator which is joy – not sadness. Joy is recognizing His love and our poverty – 1Chronicles 22:14; 29:14-16 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • ok. thanks for the explanation. i just wondered why then God omit saying “rejoice” in passover, wheras He mentioned in the other feasts.

          • Gean Guk Jeon In Deuteronomy 15:14 it says “rejoice in your “chag” – the word “chag” is a word used to describe all three holidays

            1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >

          • Gean Guk Jeon, Lets take a closer look at II Chronicles 30:16-20 where it is HEZEKIAH’S PRAYER and NOT BLOOD which ATONES for the sins of the people…
            


            II Chronicles 30:16. And they stood in their station as was their custom, according to the Torah of Moses, the man of God; the priests sprinkled the blood from the hand of the Levites.
            


            II Chronicles 30:17. For there were many among the congregation who had not consecrated themselves, and the Levites were in charge of the slaughter of the Passover sacrifices for everyone who was unclean, to make it holy for the Lord.



            II Chronicles 30:18. For a multitude of the people, many from Ephraim and Manasseh, Issachar and Zebulun, had not purified themselves, for they ate the Passover sacrifice not as it is written, for **Hezekiah had PRAYED**for them, saying, **”MAY THE GOOD LORD ATONE FOR**
            


            II Chronicles 30:19. anyone who has set his whole heart to seek God, the Lord, the God of his forefathers, though [he be] not [cleaned] according to the purity that pertains the holy things.”
            


            II Chronicles 30:20. **And THE LORD HEARKENED TO HEZEKIAH and HEALED the people.**



            The Hebrew word יְכַפֵּר is used in verse 18. It means ATONE! Here we see that in the case of Hezekiah’s passover, many of his Israelite guests DID NOT cleanse themselves with BLOOD according to the Law of Moses. In order to ATONE for the sins of his people, King Hezekiah PRAYED TO HASHEM that he should grant ATONEMENT for all those in his Kingdom who truly turned their hearts to Hashem. 

Now, to further expand on this…In verse 16, it clearly states that the Levites were in charge of sprinkling BLOOD to purify Israel as it is stated in the Torah of Moses…Now, verses 17 and 18 say that there were many in Israel WHO DID NOT PURIFY THEMSELVES WITH THE **BLOOD** AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE TORAH! 

When someone disobeys a Law in the Torah, what do we call that? We call it a SIN! Here, there were individuals who SINNED by NOT being purified by the LEVITICAL PRIESTS OF THE HOLY TEMPLE with BLOOD! Now, according to Hebrews 9:22, the only way to ATONE FOR SIN is through BLOOD! But here, the sin that was committed was that they DIDN’T use blood for atonement…So how is this sin atoned for?

            According to Hebrew 9:22, it has to be blood! But is that how this sin was atoned for? NO! Their sins were atoned for in this manner:



            II Chronicles 30:18 **Hezekiah had PRAYED**for them, saying, **”MAY THE GOOD LORD ATONE FOR**
            


            II Chronicles 30:19. anyone who has set his whole heart to seek God, the Lord, the God of his forefathers, though [he be] not [cleaned] according to the purity that pertains the holy things.”



            II Chronicles 30:20. **And THE LORD HEARKENED TO HEZEKIAH and HEALED the people.**

            

The sin of those not purified with the blood was atoned for through PRAYER!

 Thus, Hebrews 9:22 is an inaccurate statement…

            And if you are still skeptical about atonement without blood, The Hebrew word יִּרְפָּא is used in verse 20 for the word “healed.” The root of this word is רְפָּא which means heal. Amazingly, this same root is used in Isaiah 53:5
            Isaiah 53:5. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were **HEALED.**

            The Hebrew word נִרְפָּא is used in verse Isaiah 53:5 for the word “healed.” This shares the SAME ROOT with יִּרְפָּא as shown above. In both cases, (Isaiah 53:5 and II Chronicles 30:20) a form of the word רְפָּא is used for the word “healed.”
            Clearly, there are circumstances in which atonement can be made through PRAYER, particularly when blood sacrifice is not immediately available…

            II Chronicles 33:9-13 demonstrates this same principle:

            II Chronicles 33:9-13: “And Manasseh led Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem astray to do what was evil, more than the nations whom the Lord had destroyed from before the Children of Israel. And the Lord spoke to Manasseh and to his people, but they did not listen. And the Lord brought upon them the generals of the king of Assyria, and they seized Manasseh with hooks and bound him with copper chains and brought him to Babylon. And when he was distressed, he entreated the Lord his God, and he humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers. And he PRAYED to Him, and He accepted his prayer, and He heard his supplication and He restored him to Jerusalem to his kingdom, and Manasseh knew that the Lord was God.”

            Here we see that Manasseh used PRAYER to receive forgiveness of his sins as well. We see that when blood sacrifice is not available, prayer is a valid method of atonement for sin. Also keep in mind that under Manasseh’s rule, the kingdom of Judah was more idolatrous than it had ever been in the past! Clearly, Manasseh’s prayer served as a means of forgiveness/atonement without blood sacrifice and most importantly, without jesus!

            Here we have a cause and effect: King Manasseh says a prayer asking for forgiveness and G-d accepts his prayer and restores him as King of Judah. No blood sacrifice was used to atone for King Manasseh as there is nothing in the text that would indicate such.

            This proves that Hebrews 9:22 is a false statement. Blood sacrifice is not the only way to atone for sin. Your jesus has nothing to with our atonement.

            Shalom

          • Nice to meet you Yehuda. Thank your for your comment. i see your point and i agree God atones without blood sacrifice. And i want to add, “God also atones with blood” because the Law says so! Leviticus 17:11 !!

            This is my understanding of Hebrews 9:22, “In fact, the Law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood AND without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” This verse is not talking about Christian doctrine of atonement through blood. This is a statement of observation of what the Leviticus 17:11 says within the scope of the whole Torah.

            Let me rephrase it; “NEALY everything is atoned by blood according to the LAW AND there is nearly no forgiveness without the shedding of the blood according to the law ” that is what it says.

            i think you brought good textual supports. Atonement or forgiveness through prayers of two KINGS. Yes, i agree. i want you to know that crucifixion is not all about shedding blood. it is also about shedding water, shedding sweat, bruise, piercing, hanging, woundeness, chastisement, mockering, shame, condemnation… and PRAYER!

            On the cross, Jeshua prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” Luke 23:34

            God forgives and atones through blood according to the Law.
            God heals through his wound according to Isaiah 53.
            God forgives through proclamation of the coming judgment according to Jonah.
            God forgives through prayer according to Hezekiah and Mannasseh.

            Jeshua did all of them on the crucifixion. (Jeshua’s proclamation of coming disaster is found in Luke 23:30).

          • robert2016 says:

            “Yes, i agree. i want you to know that crucifixion is not all about shedding blood. it is also about shedding water, shedding sweat, bruise, piercing, hanging, woundeness, chastisement, mockering, shame, condemnation… and PRAYER!”

            just so god can forgive?
            i believe you can rise up today because you can seek god without bruise, piercing , slitting throat, wounds, shame, i believe it is possible that you can do it without the stuff you mentioned in your list. do you really think god wants to tell man to put trust in your list before he answer the phone? children are dying this minute. blood is pouring down the streets. suffering . we must change our thinking and forget depending on finite sacrifices.

  14. Cindy says:

    “The Arizal teaches that the whole concept of Passover provides the Jews with a method of rectifying Adam’s sin.” (Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, “Passover Thoughts: The Rectification of Adam’s Sin,”from “The Aryeh Kaplan Reader” p. 112, Mesorah Publications 1985.)

  15. Bene Noach says:

    Reblogged this on Bene Noach Society and commented:
    Shalom everyone! The following is an article by Rabbi Yisroel C. Blumenthal of Judaism Resources about the true meaning of the “blood of the lamb” in the festival of Pesach (Passover). This has nothing to do with the idolatrous Christian claim that the blood of their human god, Jesus, can atone for sin. The blood of the Passover lamb, an animal HaShem authorized to be sacrificed, was a statement by Hashem to Egypt that He had power of all their deities. In ordering the Children of Israel to sacrifice the lamb, one of Egypt’s supreme deities, HaShem taught the Children of Israel to trust Him and not to fear any earthly power.

  16. Blessings in the name of Yahweh, the God of Israel.

    I’ve read through these posts, and there are a number of accurate observations about what is in the text of Torah (and Nabi’im and Kethuvim.) Yet, it seems to me that many comments are focusing on the exceptions, a few trees on the margins, and failing to see the forest.

    I see that the requirement to give God a “clean, righteous, good blood sacrifice without blemish” is woven throughout the Law and the Prophets, from the beginning, starting with God in the Garden of Eden Genesis 3:21.

    Abel “brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD Yahweh looked with favor on Abel and his offering….” Genesis 4:4

    Pairs of “clean and unclean animals” came to Noah ….. Genesis 7:8
    After the flood, “Noah built an altar to the LORD Yahweh and taking some of all the CLEAN animals and CLEAN birds, he sacrificed burnt offering on it. The LORD Yahweh smelled the pleasing aroma…..” Genesis 8:20-21

    In the word of the LORD Yahweh to Israel through the Prophet Malachi
    God admonished the priests for bringing Him blemished sacrifices.

    “When you sacrifice crippled or diseased animals, is that not wrong?”
    “Cursed is the cheat who has an acceptable male in his flock and vows to give it, but then sacrifices a blemish animal to the Lord.” Malachi chapter 1

    The idea that a lamb represents a detestable Egyptian idol, and we should kill it to show we reject it, is something I just don’t see in the text of Torah……

    • Sharbano says:

      Your man was Too blemished to even be a sacrifice. Xtians use Isaiah 53 as a proof-text. This speaks of one who is “Diseased” and again, is therefore invalid.

  17. Sharbano says:

    v8 is thus “Now that he has been released from captivity and judgment, who could have imagined such a generation? For he had been removed from the land of the living, an affliction upon Them that was my people’s sin.”

    It speaks of a generation of people who were captives, and the affliction upon That generation was the sin as told by the kings who stand in astonishment. They were the sinners spoken of.

  18. in the Torah, Genesis chapter 22, we see the story of God testing Abraham.
    Abraham said:
    “God himself will provide the lamb for the burn offering, my son.”
    But then,
    God provided a RAM (not a lamb) which Abraham sacrificed as a burnt offering.

    So could you tell me please what this means?
    .1) Abraham was wrong – it was a RAM not a lamb that God would provide?
    .2) This was a prophecy about the future, and was still awaiting fulfillment even after Abraham sacrificed the ram? In other words, the ram may have been a partial fulfillment, but the complete fulfillment was yet to come?

    “So Abraham called that place “Yahweh will provide.” And to this day it is said, ‘On the mountain of Yahweh it will be provided.'” [Genesis 22:14]

    Isn’t Mount Moriah the same place as Mount Zion, or Jerusalem, where Yeshua was sacrificed?

    • robert2016 says:

      which mountain in moriah? which place on which mountain?
      why wasn’t it a prophecy of the temple which would be built for different sacrifices?
      i just don’t see how abraham is thinking to himself that god would kill himself for sins of mankind. none of this makes any sense.

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