I am not qualified to debate you on the meaning of Paul’s words – but if he truly advocated an abrogation of the Law of Moses for the Jewish people – then he would have been a false prophet – God clearly indicated that the Law of Moses would be relevant for all generations – Numbers 15:37-41 – Deuteronomy 30:1-10
Thanks so much. That is the issue. The New Covenant is not quite the same as the old.
Paul has always been offensive to Jews, of course.
I want to make only one or to major points. That the Shema is a unitarian creed. And That ONE in English and Hebrew never ever MEANS ‘more than one’.” That is a falsehood. ONE means one single, always.
Of course ONE can modify any noun in the world and of course this included collective nouns.
But ONE is still One.
Could you bring in expert Hebraists to affirm this very easy fact?
I will simply say that no Lexicon of Hebrew could possibly argue for a “compound one”
There is a iittle hint in the regrettable TWOT! But not in any other Lexicon.
My desire would be to have this meaning of ONE established beyond cavil, Jews were unbending unitarians. It is an assult on the Hebrew Bible, preserved by Jews, to say that there is Trinitarianism in the Hebrew Bible!
I would also ask you to affirm the Massoretic pointing unless in rare cases there is some EVIDENCE of alteration as for example in Ps 110:3!
I would ask you to bring expert opinion for the fact that ADONI AND ADONAI ARE DISTINCT WORDS WITH DISTINCT MEANINGS.
Anthony
Sir Anthony
There can be no question that the Hebrew word “echad” means precisely what the word “one” means in the English language. Those who argue for other meanings – such as “alone” – are not attempting to present literal translation – rather they are explaining what they see as the message.
As for your second point – the only way I have to verify the vowelization of the word “adoni” in Psalm 110 is through the Aramaic translations and through the Midrashim – all of them predate the Masorites and all of them confirm the Masoretic rendering of the word.
the only way I have to verify the vowelization of the word “adoni” in Psalm 110 is through the Aramaic translations and through the Midrashim
Where can I find these? Have been Googling any and all sources and all I have come up with are Orhtodox/Messianic sounding articles. One of which had this incredible statement:
only the Peshitta boldly declares, “for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is YHWH the Messiah” (Luqa 2:11).
Rabbi, Yes, absolutely right. Some others are doing something much worse than arguing for “alone,” they are using the treacherous term “compound one” and even appealing to Lexicons for support. This is very deceptive, but people are determined to believe that ADONAI is Triune! I find this an awful insult to the Hebrew people who preserved the text, and for the NT scriptures. It is an insult to the intelligence to say that “one tripod” means that one can really mean three! Lexicons are quite clear about ONE!
There is one rogue “hint” in one inferior Lexicon, TWOT. The writer says that “One stresses unity while recognizing diversity”.
That is very clever and monstrously misleading. We ALL know that ONE can modify any collective noun! That does not mean that ONE means more than ONE.
A collective noun of course implies plurality, but the word one means one! (Forgive my stating the obvious).
Thanks for you good idea about verification of adoni. I can show that the Greek LXX and also NT Kurios mou confirms it too. But do you have easily to hand a confirmation from Aramaic, which would read MARI, I suppose, or from the Targum? There ought to be no need to have to oppose the stupid idea that YHVH speaks to ADONAI in Ps 110:1.
In addition Jesus in the NT speaks of the Human Being (Son of Man) at the right hand and Peter uses Ps 110:1 to say that Jesus has “been made lord and Messiah” (Acts 2:34ff.) and no one imagined that ADONAI could be made anything.
I hope that as many rabbis as possible will add their weight against this appalling assault on Hebrew Scripture and English and Hebrew language.
English ONE and Hebrew ONE obviously function just alike. Monotheism, undefiled, is important for us all!
Anthony
Sir Anthony
The Targums that I am refering to are more midrashic than literal word-for-word translations – but they make clear that the subject is a human being.
As for the Rabbis weighing in – I am sure you are aware that collective Israel has weighed in on this with their lives – tens if not hundreds of thousands went to their deaths because they believed that their covenant with God demands that they reject any claims for God’s plurality or for the deification of any human. If the testimony of the witness nation didn’t speak to the Church – I am afraid logic will not do the trick.
But, Sir Anthony – the truth is indestructible – when you have the truth – you can take on the world – because the God of truth is with you.
I remain your Pharisee friend
Rabbi, Thanks so much. These are powerful words and you are right. Not only noble Jewish martyrs but also Christian martyrs for the same cause of monotheism in the wonderful heritage of the Tanach. We are protesting the death of Servetus by Calvin. As you know the murder of Servetus came about because he refused to cave into the Triune idea.
You are of course right that the Targums never imagined anything but a human being for Ps. 110:1. Adoni is of course in the Tanach always a non-Deity reference. That is why we protest the current idea of some that the Jews actually fiddled the vowel points and that the text should be ADONAI speaking to adonai!
Ghastly.
Thanks for you inspirational words below..
In Dr. Brown’s discussion of the difference between ADONAI and ADONI, an unfortunate slip occurred on p. 227 of Vol 3 of Answering Jewish Objections. He speaks of “ADONI with the long vowel qametz.” He then says that this refers to YHVH. This typo confuses the issue because as we know he really means “ADONAI with the qametz.”
English translations. most of them, in the critically important Ps 110:1, fail to register the huge difference between ADONAI and ADONI, by putting a capital letter on the second lord.
This is inaccurate and breaks their own rules! Thus the translations tell us their intended policy in their introductions, and say that ADONAI is represented by Lord (with capital L) and YHVH by LORD. They then put a capital letter on Lord for the second lord in Ps 110:1! This makes the reader believe that the Hebrew has ADONAI!
Hello Rabbi
Could you clear up something for me regarding the use of the Hebrew word echad by nominal Christians who say it means a “compund one”.
So could you tell me what echad actually means?
Echad means “one” – it could refer to either a compund unity or an absolute unity – it depends on the context.
SHEMA ISRAEL ADONAI ELOHEINU ADONAI ECHAD PRINCIPIO FUNDAMENTAL DE NOSSA FÉ JUDAICA.SHALOM!
Thanks so much. That is the issue. The New Covenant is not quite the same as the old.
Paul has always been offensive to Jews, of course.
Thanks for plain talk.
Anthony
Sir Anthony
Would you be interested on debating the matter on a forum I could open on this blog?
I appreciate your plain talk as well
Yisroel
I want to make only one or to major points. That the Shema is a unitarian creed. And That ONE in English and Hebrew never ever MEANS ‘more than one’.” That is a falsehood. ONE means one single, always.
Of course ONE can modify any noun in the world and of course this included collective nouns.
But ONE is still One.
Could you bring in expert Hebraists to affirm this very easy fact?
I will simply say that no Lexicon of Hebrew could possibly argue for a “compound one”
There is a iittle hint in the regrettable TWOT! But not in any other Lexicon.
My desire would be to have this meaning of ONE established beyond cavil, Jews were unbending unitarians. It is an assult on the Hebrew Bible, preserved by Jews, to say that there is Trinitarianism in the Hebrew Bible!
I would also ask you to affirm the Massoretic pointing unless in rare cases there is some EVIDENCE of alteration as for example in Ps 110:3!
I would ask you to bring expert opinion for the fact that ADONI AND ADONAI ARE DISTINCT WORDS WITH DISTINCT MEANINGS.
Anthony
Sir Anthony
There can be no question that the Hebrew word “echad” means precisely what the word “one” means in the English language. Those who argue for other meanings – such as “alone” – are not attempting to present literal translation – rather they are explaining what they see as the message.
As for your second point – the only way I have to verify the vowelization of the word “adoni” in Psalm 110 is through the Aramaic translations and through the Midrashim – all of them predate the Masorites and all of them confirm the Masoretic rendering of the word.
Where can I find these? Have been Googling any and all sources and all I have come up with are Orhtodox/Messianic sounding articles. One of which had this incredible statement:
http://yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_new/notes/Aramaic_Deity_Discoveries.php
Xavier
There are several Aramaic targumim and many midrashim – I will attempt to compile a list for you during the next few days
Rabbi, Yes, absolutely right. Some others are doing something much worse than arguing for “alone,” they are using the treacherous term “compound one” and even appealing to Lexicons for support. This is very deceptive, but people are determined to believe that ADONAI is Triune! I find this an awful insult to the Hebrew people who preserved the text, and for the NT scriptures. It is an insult to the intelligence to say that “one tripod” means that one can really mean three! Lexicons are quite clear about ONE!
There is one rogue “hint” in one inferior Lexicon, TWOT. The writer says that “One stresses unity while recognizing diversity”.
That is very clever and monstrously misleading. We ALL know that ONE can modify any collective noun! That does not mean that ONE means more than ONE.
A collective noun of course implies plurality, but the word one means one! (Forgive my stating the obvious).
Thanks for you good idea about verification of adoni. I can show that the Greek LXX and also NT Kurios mou confirms it too. But do you have easily to hand a confirmation from Aramaic, which would read MARI, I suppose, or from the Targum? There ought to be no need to have to oppose the stupid idea that YHVH speaks to ADONAI in Ps 110:1.
In addition Jesus in the NT speaks of the Human Being (Son of Man) at the right hand and Peter uses Ps 110:1 to say that Jesus has “been made lord and Messiah” (Acts 2:34ff.) and no one imagined that ADONAI could be made anything.
I hope that as many rabbis as possible will add their weight against this appalling assault on Hebrew Scripture and English and Hebrew language.
English ONE and Hebrew ONE obviously function just alike. Monotheism, undefiled, is important for us all!
Anthony
Sir Anthony
The Targums that I am refering to are more midrashic than literal word-for-word translations – but they make clear that the subject is a human being.
As for the Rabbis weighing in – I am sure you are aware that collective Israel has weighed in on this with their lives – tens if not hundreds of thousands went to their deaths because they believed that their covenant with God demands that they reject any claims for God’s plurality or for the deification of any human. If the testimony of the witness nation didn’t speak to the Church – I am afraid logic will not do the trick.
But, Sir Anthony – the truth is indestructible – when you have the truth – you can take on the world – because the God of truth is with you.
I remain your Pharisee friend
Rabbi, Thanks so much. These are powerful words and you are right. Not only noble Jewish martyrs but also Christian martyrs for the same cause of monotheism in the wonderful heritage of the Tanach. We are protesting the death of Servetus by Calvin. As you know the murder of Servetus came about because he refused to cave into the Triune idea.
You are of course right that the Targums never imagined anything but a human being for Ps. 110:1. Adoni is of course in the Tanach always a non-Deity reference. That is why we protest the current idea of some that the Jews actually fiddled the vowel points and that the text should be ADONAI speaking to adonai!
Ghastly.
Thanks for you inspirational words below..